Recently I have been chatting on a Facebook group dedicated to Chaos Marines and anyone who loves them, this is where you will find me lurking vomiting on posts about how Warp Talons are a brilliant option. Don't worry that is not all I do, currently I am having a chat about how the hell I am meant to put my Fire Raptor together, but less of that and onto some thinking, I can smell the smoke already.
Todays post is about a single question, one that I first came across (yet did not understand) on 40KUK's podcast, where a really good tournament player called Josh asks the question "What are you wanting to achieve with this list?" A question I have struggled to answer every time I pull out my codex and started scribbling down plans and tactics and army lists ever since, and it came up again when I last played Tom Rampage and once again I could not answer it.
Now, in this Chaos Marines group of quiet cool guys army lists get posted up regularly for scrutinizing by Chaotic peers, and I think I have seen them all. From Ahriman and a full blown thousand sons contingent to 6 troops of foot slogging Khorne Berzerkers. Now, this stuff obviously isn't competitive, but once you see the pictures of finely painted models, you understand most of these lists are for collection purposes and fun.
However, every now and then a competitive entry gets splatted up there, usually mine and the comment section goes, basically, ape shit with everything and anything that the individuals like to field or think is good or works well with X,Y,Z. I sometimes join in on other peoples lists, but today I didn't, I almost fell into the pit where most chaos players reside because we just want to find that Centurion unit or our Beast Pack. Chasing the Dragon I think is the term I will go with , and there never seems to be an agreement of style apart from Flying Circus was once a thing before 7th, but hey new codex in, what August? keep praying.
Anyway, I asked one list builder the question "What are you wanting to achieve with this list?" and the answer I got wasn't the answer I was looking for. He explained what his list could do/ properties that would help him, which he did a good job on, but it wasn't really the answer to the right question, "What is the list going to achieve for you?" or a variation thereupon would have suited his answer better. I wanted to know what armies he wants to defeat, what builds he was looking to counter and what enemies he could shut down. Without this answer, I ask How can you build your competitive list?
Last year, when this blog came together I thought I was all good and solid with what is what in the Chaos Codex, and what was a need to take for you to stand up against enemy armies. I think I made a list:
anti T8, anti AV14, anti Horde, anti flyer and anti 2+
This list to me now seems, well, stupid. To fit all that in a single list that can win a game is almost impossible, and in a chaos list impossible is type of its thing. Now, the problem I ended up having was I had a little bit of everything in my lists and in the end a whole bunch of nothing appeared. Stretching an army too thin so it can deal with what ever it might face, means it will get destroyed at something it will face.
For example, at the end of last year I went to Toy Solider with none other than Tom Rampage, and in that Tournament I faced a Lord Of War: The Greater Brass Scorpion Of Khorne, and I had brought some things along to deal with one, but it was not enough with 3 HP's left it charged into my stuff and wrecked my day. In the next game I fought a wall of T6 Tyranids with Flyrants. I had brought things to deal with them too, but once again it wasn't enough and down the drain I went. Third game saw Tom and his twin LandRaiders, once again not enough candy. The only game I managed to claw a win was against, Surprise Eldar! With a Wraith lord, which only died after a hefty amount of shooting, but that was the only game I had brought enough of what I needed to win, and my last game was a shambles of my opponent fiddling some 7th ed rules so I didn't kill a rhino full of marines and he didn't come last, so I did instead. Head held high I collected my wooden spoon and dubbed it a great learning experience and a lot of fun!
Back to the question, what did I want to achieve? Well I honestly had no clue, I put that army together with the list above in mind because I had nothing else to go by. Back on the drawing board for a while, I came back after Christmas (ok, an extremely long while, but these things take time) with my brand spanking Forgeworld Infested new list, which was spanked off the table by Tom's Screamer Council faster than I thought possible. We then delved into the question once again, and turned up another list out of the mist. Unfortunately this list didn't sit well with me, like purchasing those 5 resin raptor models a few years back, I still hate them.
This question kept bashing my skull over the next few days as I mulled over my Dex's once again, to see if an answer would slap me in my face, and well it kind of did. A brief stint of 6th edition I ran IG with my Chaos Marines after being impressed with what Tom did with them alongside his Space Pooches. I had a blob and a manticore, and although it wasn't a traditional blob (Four Flyers brigade) It stood its ground against Toms brand new (Back then) Screamer Council and almost (Johns stupidity hits again) gave me a win. Unfortunately 7th edition put a swift end to that love child and brought me crashing back down to the pit (mentioned above). This thought came to me and I rekindled the list of how it almost once was, with a few changes, then edited it here and there to make my own personal individual list, that you most likely won't want to copy, and....
What do I want to achieve with this list?
Well, I want to clog down those screamer councils, Bombs, and board controlling armies whilst tearing the rest of the army apart and securing, or obliterating them objectives and pulling me off the bottom tables (sad truth) and where I am meant to be, not there. *Disclaimer, no Obliterators are in this army, they are banned from it.
So when I ask you "What do you want to achieve with this army?" what is your answer?
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